The conversation is all around Carl Jung's four stages of life
>> Bailey Moreland: M hey there.
>> Bailey Moreland: Welcome to from the Holler, the podcast, where we have intentional, deep, vulnerable conversations infused with ancient wisdom, spiritual principles, and a little bit of laughter. Join us on this journey of learning and unlearning m as we come home to our truest, most authentic selves.
>> Bailey Moreland: So, Vicki, last time we were together, you mentioned something that really piqued my interest, and it kind of got me on this rabbit trail of research. And so I want to see if we can have a conversation today. And the conversation is all around Carl Jung's four stages of life. Do you remember us talking about that?
>> Vikki: Yeah, absolutely. They, I first heard Wayne Dyer talk about those, and I, too, went down a rabbit hole. most of you know how influential Carl Jung and his work has been in my life. And so when Wayne Dyer had mentioned these four stages and actually did a movie about, my perspective is these four stages, I got real obsessed with the movie and understanding it just gave me some clarity.
>> Bailey Moreland: I'll admit that I am a psychology major, so I know about Carl Jung, but it wasn't until I came out here to the farm and you talk so much at Signpost Saturday, which was my first introduction to you, but on Signpost Saturday, you'll always mention the morning and the afternoon of your life. So I heard you talk about that, and I thought, okay, that's all there is to it. And then last time we recorded, you mentioned I, there were four stages. So that was kind of a surprise to me. So, let me just lay some groundwork for our conversation today and for everyone listening, and we're going to kind of dive into these four different stages. I think they're pretty interesting, and then you have a lot of insight to share with us. So, according to Carl Jung, the four stages are, one, the athlete to the warrior. Three, the statement and for the spirit. And don't let the names throw you off. Maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but they, at first, I was like, these don't logically make sense. And here's why I was thinking about them in a linear fashion. So, a little caveat here. These stages, they have nothing to do with your age. They have nothing to do with what you've achieved, attained your possessions, nothing of that sort. And we're very used to, to, in our western culture, thinking in those terms.
>> Vikki: Absolutely.
>> Bailey Moreland: And the biggest point, I think, that we need to hold front and center for this conversation is that these stages are not linear. Also, something that we do in western culture is, we think very up and to the right. Keep moving. Forward. Once I achieve this, then I get that ladder climbing. These stages don't work that way. So just kind of take that off the table.
>> Vikki: Yeah. And I would also add, Bailey, that anything can be helpful or hurtful. And so sometimes we find labels and we can get so attached to them that we then judge ourselves and others by it. And so the deeper pointer to me with all of this is they're a helpful tool meant to hopefully open your door inward and give you some insight and some clarity around some things. They're not meant judge or to hurt you or yourselves. And so I think it's important, you know, for us to just remember it's. They're just an offering.
>> Bailey Moreland: I really like that. Like, I'm kind of taking a minute to hear your words and, I hope everyone listening does too. Maybe even just like, back it up 15 seconds if you're listening to this. And let Vicki say that to you. Again, this is not something that's meant to use to, if I'm hearing you correctly, not meant to define you.
>> Vikki: Yeah, yeah. Because again, a lot of what we offer out at the farm is letting go of boxes and labels. And so it would be easy to say, okay, the four stages, like it's a list, again, of, okay, where do I fit in? Where do the people I love fit in? And use that. Use that for harshness. And it's not meant for that. In fact, again, I know I referenced it before, but it's important. The movie the shift by Wayne Dyer, is about this Carl Jung statement and beliefs and his philosophy. And he actually has characters in that movie that you can clearly see that are playing out these four stages of life. It's just a beautiful, beautiful movie that is very helpful, if you're on a spiritual journey, I'm making a note.
>> Bailey Moreland: Right now, so, I'm going to have a link for that in the show notes of this, so that everybody can go and look up the shift by Wayne Dyer. Because, you know, it's just interesting here as you're talking, I'm thinking we all learn in different ways. Like some people learn by hearing this, by reading it. But, I can be very visual. So sometimes a movie helps really solidify something.
You were talking about judgment. And I think about this, this term that I throw around
So I think it's cool that we have that to offer, but little timeout here for something that I heard recently that applied. You were talking about judgment. And I think about this, this term that I throw around as a parent, and I think christians throw around like confetti. The statement that we always say is comparison is the thief of joy. And I heard recently, somebody break that down and say, actually, in fact, comparison is not the thief. It's the judgment that happens when you compare. That's the thief. So analyze your life. Right? Like, as we present these four stages, like, sure, find out where you feel like you might be, but don't let that judgment steal anything from you. And don't live in that box. I kind of think about the farm. We live in a world that loves boxes, loves to pin that butterfly down and take away the magic of what the butterfly is. But here, it's all about fluid. Containers. Sometimes we need containers to help us understand where we're at so that we can do what you're saying. Open the door inward and perhaps identify where we might want to go, but that you got to hold it all loosely. And that's something you always say.
>> Vikki: Yeah, it's. Sometimes we lose the essence of the thing because we are trying to label, judge, put in a box the thing, and yes, boxes, or even comparison. Like, I loved that you said that. Because if we use it to inspire, inspire us, that's a beautiful thing. It's when we use it, most of us are taught that we use things to hurt ourselves, and we don't even realize it, whether it's relationships, a belief system, you know, our mind, rather than using it any. Everything's on a continuum. That's why a butterfly, we want to fly and not nail it down. It's all on a continuum, and it's how we actually practice the thing.
Vicki shares her thoughts on Carl Jung's four stages of life
>> Bailey Moreland: All right, so let's circle back to the topic, which is Carl Jung's four stages of life. I just want to quick take an overview of the four stages, just to, again, set the scene, help everybody get a context for what these interestingly labeled stages entail, what they might look like. Ah, stage one, the athlete. It's characterized by being obsessed with our, physical bodies and appearance. Individuals in this stage often strive for success and recognition in external achievements. Vicki, what are your thoughts on the athlete? I have thoughts for you, but I want to hear your thoughts.
>> Vikki: Well, interesting enough, I was an athlete in the morning of my life, a, professional athlete. And so, yes, that was a natural progression for me of wanting to be seen and heard and feel special and feel accomplished and going about it through external validation, because internally, I had no idea who I was. And so it was that just striving and never enoughness. No matter what you win, no matter what you accomplish, it never filled that hole in the soul that we always talk about that is more of an inside job that I went on that phase for quite some time in my life.
>> Bailey Moreland: So the athlete phase for you, just if you were guessing how long did that span and what ages would you bookmark it? Bookend it?
>> Vikki: I would definitely say. I mean, when I had to officially retire from the Olympic training center and when I had to do that was when, you know, my world, m burned and crashed. I hit the ground and imploded because all the, superficialities and labels and boxes and hustling, all of that was stripped away. I did not know who I was without being that label, that thing. And when it all came crashing down, so did I. And that was 36 years of age. 30 to 36 years of age. It was a long crash and burn. I had to suffer a lot.
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Vicki: I almost feel like these stages are rites of passage
Okay, back to our episode.
>> Bailey Moreland: And I'm thinking, like, I mean, obviously that's, that's what I was alluding to. The title of this stage fits perfectly for you. For those of us who weren't athletes, this might look like the college student who is upper grad years, going on to the corporate world and climbing that ladder and just. It's like I'm envisioning like pac man, just gobble, gobble, gobble. Faster, faster, better, stronger. more. And, you know, I'm even thinking about, again, this isn't bound by age. I'm thinking about people who kind of have a consumeristic mentality for spiritual experiences, travels. I mean, this is just very egocentric, self absorbed, me, me, me kind of stage of life. And something that's coming to me as we're talking about it. As a parent, I think about kids. I almost feel like these stages are rites of passage in some ways. I'm not sure, Vicki, you might be able to lend some insight. I'm not sure that anybody would sit in one stage for their whole life, let's say.
>> Vikki: Yes, I do think they're somewhat right of passages because we are conditioned to believe this is the path, this is the successful path as much as I think it is. It's not done maliciously. Like, my life is going to be about me, me. It's not like malicious, it's just. No, that's what our culture teaches and preaches and gives to us. And so we play that part. I'm going to crush it and kick it and all the things. And so we do that because that's what we're trained to do.
>> Bailey Moreland: I think that it would be interesting, let's say, to like, look at different cultures even, and just see, like, does it play out for them in that way? I don't know. It's more of a question and an unknown that we could ponder by ourselves. But I wonder if that's a western thing or if that's just a thing thing.
>> Vikki: Well, probably, like most things, it's more exaggerated over here. You know, people that live simpler lives, but I would imagine too part of their journey is somewhat on an external validation. I mean, that to me is just, you know, it's just part of the human condition, but it's probably not as exaggerated as it is in our western culture. Again, that's just my opinion.
>> Bailey Moreland: Yeah, no, I agree. And maybe they have actual rites of passage built into these stages to help people transition to, through, and away from them.
The warrior stage involves taking on responsibilities, fulfilling societal roles
So let's look at the second stage. And this second stage is called the warrior stage. I'm going to read a little bit from the definition, and then I'm going to have you bring some clarity to it with like, a real life example. But it says here the warrior stage involves taking on responsibilities, fulfilling societal roles. I'm interested by that piece and establishing oneself in the world. So this is where we have a desire to kind of conquer the world. And the vanity that is associated more with that, that the ego and vanity of the athlete stage starts to kind of fade away, bring it to life for us. Vicki, what does this mean?
>> Vikki: Well, what it means to me is usually in this stage is when we get married and have kids. So our focus is not just on us as individuals, but we, then our circle starts widening a little bit where it's, I've got to take care of my spouse and my children. And so the circle starts widening beyond the small me, the little me. And so that's when we want to be responsible and just work hard for our family and give and support. So our whole, that circle of just repetition, day in and day out, next week, next month, next year, is punching that time clock. And usually, usually we're doing that to contribute to our family.
>> Bailey Moreland: That makes sense. Are there any examples? I'm thinking about you specifically, I know you're married, but you don't have children outside of fur children.
>> Vikki: Yeah, lots of fur children.
>> Bailey Moreland: So what did the warrior phase look like for you?
>> Vikki: So there was a phase when I got sober after my retirement from being an athlete. And I did try to find my way in the world. I did. I worked for a family as a person, personal assistant, traveled, and I helped them with a lot of personal things as well as their foundation. And so I was in that phase of trying to find my way in the world. And I didn't have a family at the time, and I wasn't married, but I started getting an understanding of. I wanted to make a contribution, so I started working hard at making a contribution.
>> Bailey Moreland: There it is. There's the warrior phase right there. You felt that sense that the world is greater than just yourself or what's right in front of you. And I also just pulled this out. It's really interesting to me, but it says, in the warrior phase, it's characterized by the struggles that occurred in early adulthood and our inability to tackle those or make sense of them at the time, because we would have been maybe in that athlete phase. So it's just really interesting to sit and ponderous how you're, for anyone listening. Maybe you're in this phase. Maybe you've moved beyond it. But how was your warrior phase really impacted by your athlete phase? That's just a little food for thought. I'm going to move right into stage three.
When the warrior phase comes to an end, focus shifts to helping others
The statement, this is the title that threw me, so I had to really wrap my head around it. Again, reading here, it says, when the warrior phase comes to an end. So this is more presented in a linear fashion. Again, remember, you could go from the athlete to the warrior, back to the athlete, back to the warrior to the statement. But bearing that in mind, it says, when the warrior phase in our life is coming to an end, we find ourselves asking, what have I done for others? Your focus is shifting from your personal achievements to accomplishing goals based on improving other people's lives. So you're not focusing on goals that improve your life or your family's life. And I guess it could be your family, but you're really thinking beyond yourself, even more so in the statement phase. It's correlated, and it can be correlated with parenting. But again, if you don't have children of your own, this is just looking outside of yourself, realizing there's a whole world beyond you and how what is your impact on the world, I think, is kind of what characterizes this stage. There's a natural shift here. And I feel like maybe this is where I am. As I read it, there's a natural shift towards introspection. So you're looking inside more than trying to define yourself by those things around you. You're looking inside of yourself, wondering what's going on in your mind, questioning your values, seeking that deeper meaning. This is when people can get really deeply spiritual, and you're grappling with those really, really deep existential questions. And I really feel like that's where I'm at.
>> Vikki: I think, just to break all that down, what it, what it, represents for me is that is when we really do start opening the door inward and asking questions of, like, what is true for me? Who am I?
>> Bailey Moreland: Yes.
>> Vikki: It's up until this point, it feels like we've just accepted everything that was given to us. Beliefs, the way we do things, order in which we do things, you know, our code of ethics, like, everything we have just accepted and adopted, maybe had a family and then started passing that along. And then we realize something usually happens during this time of great tragedy or heartbreak through some kind of really hard loss. And then we go deeper and we start questioning the really deeper, deeper things going on inside of us. That's what that statement phase means, to me.
>> Bailey Moreland: Yeah, I like it. I like the way that you summarized it and kind of brought it to simplicity for us. And as you were talking, an image came to mind. It's almost like in the athlete in warrior phase, you're going to the grocery store and you're just gathering all these things, all these ingredients. Oh, this looks good. Oh, this looks good. I like this. So this makes me look good. This makes me feel good. This tastes good. The statement phase, you're home and you're evaluating your inventory, saying, what am I going to make with all this? What does all this mean? Who do I need to make some food for? That's my mom, evaluation of it. Grocery store analogies.
>> Vikki: Yeah. And I think, you know, in the statement phase, like, to use your analogy, I think we start looking at all these groceries and thinking, I don't even need all these groceries. I am going to start letting go. I am going to start simplifying. I am going to start getting on a different path of gathering and accumulating, to actually releasing and letting go. So space is created in this phase.
>> Bailey Moreland: I like that. That's not in any of the definitions I read, but it absolutely tracks that you are putting some space and some time for reflection, some stillness into your life. There which naturally takes you right into stage four. and this is the spirit stage because you mentioned all these ingredients, you know, do I need all these? What am I going to do with all these? This is a stage really marked by the realization that you are more than your stuff, more than what you've accumulated, whether that be knowledge or things or friends, what have you. You kind of have this awareness that you're a divine being on a journey of life that has no clear beginning and end. And that that's a big concept to get your mind around, a journey having no beginning and no end.
>> Vikki: Yeah. And I think at the farm we talked a lot about our physical essence and the spirit of who we are. And I think this is where we start living from the truth and the understanding of that. We are spiritual beings having a human existence. And so it's more of the lived experience of the depth of our spirit rather than just, you know, I think more in this phase to take ancient wisdom. it's really where we are in the world, but not of the world. And so our lives reflect something completely different.
>> Bailey Moreland: I like that. I'm wondering if you can just, say that one more time. We are.
>> Vikki: Again, it's signpost one. I am a spiritual being having a human experience. So it's an order of. In the beginning phases of Carl Jung's stages, our focus is on our physical essence, our doing, our accumulations and all of that. And in this spirit stage, it seems like the order reverses and the spirit is primary and the physical and doing is secondary. And so we put more focus, attention, energy, all of the things on the spirit of who we are, on the beingness of who we are, and therefore make a difference, deeper contribution in the quality of what we bring forth. And in the beginning phases, you know, it's more of living life from our physical essence, what we do, what we have, what other people think of us. And this is the final where for me, and I still vacillate in all these different areas, but, it's the lived experience of connectedness that we're all really connected.
Vicki says sometimes she feels herself straddling different phases
>> Bailey Moreland: That's interesting. I feel like in hearing you talk, I can kind of see, you said the word vacillate. It's such a good word, but I feel myself, straddling sometimes and I feel like that's what you're alluding to. Like that's part of life is feeling like you're straddling some of these phases. Right? Yeah.
>> Vikki: For me, I always say for me, because I don't ever want to pretend that I have somebody's answers, everybody's truths inside of them. And I always like to, you know, remind people of that. But we would like to think that we are grounded in the middle of some space and area. There are clean lines. It's wrapped up. It's beautiful. But a lot of times in my life, I've got one damn leg slung over the fence and another one on the other side, and I want to be over there. And yet, for some reason, I'm choosing to be in both places. And so, again, that's part of, like, how, whether it's these stages or the books or podcasts or people can help and remind us first you're not alone. And that, like, whenever you're ready with compassion, you can swing your other leg over. But if you're straddling right now, that's okay, too.
>> Bailey Moreland: Absolutely. I mean, and it's, you know, like you always say, don't add struggle to struggle, right? So don't. Don't judge if you're in a place and you don't want to be there.
>> Vikki: To even recognize your straddling a fence is a very big thing, because then you can swing the other leg over. Most people don't even realize there's a fence.
>> Bailey Moreland: Right.
>> Vikki: And so to have that awareness, like God, you can really give, you know, a lot of gratitude. Like God, I can feel this. This tug of war, this pull of where I am. And yet I, have a choice.
>> Bailey Moreland: I love that. So I'm m gonna read us a quote. It's a Carl Jung quote. It's kind of written in words and speak that we don't use now, so bear with me. And then, Vicki, I know you'll just add your country flair to it, if you will, you know?
>> Vikki: I got a country flair?
>> Bailey Moreland: Yes, you do.
Carl Jung says what worked in the morning stops working in the afternoon
All right, so, Carl Jung, regarding these four stages of life, he says, thoroughly unprepared, we take this step into the afternoon of life. Worse still, we take this step with the false presupposition that our truths and our ideals will serve us as here, thereto. But we cannot live the afternoon of life according to the program of life's morning. For what was great in the morning will be little at evening, and what in the morning was true at evening will have become a lie. Carl Jung, it's so good. It's so good.
>> Vikki: Yeah. That's actually, the signpost. That's what the signposts, that's what a lot of what we do out at the farm is all about, is understanding. there is a morning and afternoon of our lives, and what worked in the morning stops working in the afternoons of our lives. And that each of us have a choice when we're still using conditioning and beliefs of the morning that no longer are working, that we have the freedom, you know, to let them go and try a new way, a different way at life.
>> Bailey Moreland: I like that. It's kind of. It's the end of the quote that you spend so much of your time on. what worked in the morning doesn't work in the afternoon. And I think that's a good reminder for, some people who might feel like they're in a time of turmoil or struggle. That's probably a prompt or a gift, right? To say, that's letting you know that the time has come to move from one stage to the other. There is a fence. You're straddling it. Come on, friends, sling that leg over.
>> Vikki: Yeah, absolutely. And to understand that things change, things are always in constant change and moving, and that actually is a beautiful thing that, you know, what worked at one point no longer is going to work. That's just the way, hopefully, as human beings, we evolve consciously, and when we know something different, then we start actually living differently.
>> Bailey Moreland: That's right. That's right. Which is the ultimate prompt when all of a sudden you're doing what you've done, and it's just not fitting anymore. There you go. You know, you're ready to transcend to another phase.
This week's heart of the holler is a journal prompt
So, Vicki, I'm going to wrap us up here with our heart of the holler. And, just as a reminder, this is just kind of a simple call to action at the end of each of our episodes, where we can apply what we've talked about and learned, in a practical way. And this week's heart of the holler is a journal prompt. The question here is for you to just sit and reflect with pen and paper. Or maybe you just want to sit outside and let the fresh air hit your face, and you're going to reflect on your own life and maybe take a moment to try to identify what stage or stages that you're currently in. You could have your leg over the fence, or you could be solid in the middle of one of these. just take a moment to think about that, identify the stage that feels like the one you're at right now, and some items that you could think about as you're trying to determine your stage of life. Write down your motivations. Think about your goals. Think about some of your most recent inner conflicts, the things that you're grappling with and struggling with, those will be good signposts, if you will. Once you've taken a moment to reflect, gathered your thoughts and have a good idea of where you might land, sit quietly, close your eyes, take some really slow, deep, calming breaths. I like to go in my nose and out my mouth. revisit these four stages and the various stops that you've made along the way. This is a great time to look back and with gratitude. Think about your athlete stage, your warrior stage, your statement stage, and think, about the stops along the way. As you're here, just want to remind you, and Vicki, I know you'll echo this. Just stay as non judgmental as you can. We're not looking back with, oh gosh, you can't believe we or none of that. It's just complete gratitude that you've come to this point in your life and that you're here today, taking this time to look over the landscape of things, and then, warmly and calmly welcome yourself to the current stage that you feel you're in. You know, visualize your, your landscape around you. Is it warm? Is it sunny? What's it like? Lay the scene, set an intention. Give yourself love for those past stages, for the stages you're not quite in, but that you want to visit. Vicki, what else would you add to that?
>> Vikki: That's pretty thorough. I would just say, can you just be with wherever you are? Can you just be with wherever you are? Doing is important, and steps and all of the doing things are important, but can you just lovingly and compassionately be wherever you are? And if something in you wants to be someplace different, I think first and foremost is acknowledging where you are with compassion. If you want to go someplace new.
>> Bailey Moreland: you always just ground us and just be. That's perfect. Well, thank you, Vicki, for your time today. This has been wonderful.
>> Vikki: Yeah, thank you so much for all of this, Bailey. It was a cool little journey on the four stages of Carl Jung.
Thanks for joining us on another episode of from the Holler podcast
>> Bailey Moreland: Thanks for joining us on another episode of from the Holler. We hope our conversation today has offered valuable insights on your journey towards healing and soul discovery. We'd love if you take a moment of your time to rate and review the podcast. This helps others who are on their healing journey find us. Also, stay connected with us on social media. You can find us on Instagram or Facebook at Farm, the number two souls, or visit our website at www. Dot farm two souls.com. as always, thank you for allowing us to be a part of your journey. Stay curious, stay open. And remember, you're not alone on this path.
